Recover namecoin.bit + deal with cyber-squatters

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indolering
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Recover namecoin.bit + deal with cyber-squatters

Post by indolering »

Unfortunately, our registration of namecoin.bit lapsed at some point. We would like to have that back under our control. I've contacted the listed owners but I haven't heard back.

Because of the way Namecoin is designed, we obviously can't get it back now. However, we can try to setup a domain sniper. This would be rather trivial to do, but if someone already has one I would love to borrow it. I think having multiple clients setup would be useful as well.
DNS is much more than a key->value datastore.

domob
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Re: Recover namecoin.bit + deal with cyber-squatters

Post by domob »

What? Doing name_history for d/namecoin suggests that its been with the same guy (web@dmin.eu?) since at least 109.000 blocks. It seems not to have expired for the last couple of updates, so what exactly do you mean? That someone is squatting namecoin.bit since years? Or that someone lost it recently? Do you know who "should" be the correct owner that "lost" it?

Sorry, I don't get what you mean ... please clarify. :)

EDIT: I set up a cronjob to snatch up my id/domob as fast as possible as I had to let it expire recently due to the 519 bytes bug. It was quite trivial, and in case you have justified reasons to believe that d/namecoin is going to expire at some point, I can set up something like that again. But I doubt that will be the case.
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indolering
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Re: Recover namecoin.bit + deal with cyber-squatters

Post by indolering »

domob wrote:What? Doing name_history for d/namecoin suggests that its been with the same guy (web@dmin.eu?) since at least 109.000 blocks. It seems not to have expired for the last couple of updates, so what exactly do you mean? That someone is squatting namecoin.bit since years? Or that someone lost it recently? Do you know who "should" be the correct owner that "lost" it?
Sorry, I don't get what you mean ... please clarify. :)
Doing some digging on dmin.eu and related domains it turns up some cyber-squatting outfits.

Who should own it? Well, one of the lead devs for Namecoin! Khal doesn't own it :(
domob wrote: EDIT: I set up a cronjob to snatch up my id/domob as fast as possible as I had to let it expire recently due to the 519 bytes bug. It was quite trivial, and in case you have justified reasons to believe that d/namecoin is going to expire at some point, I can set up something like that again. But I doubt that will be the case.
I guess I was just being hopeful and I was thinking that additional people hammering at this would increase our chances in-case it ever did lapse.

However, Ademan brought up the possibility of creating a group to snatch up domains that are important but have been allowed to expire (I think Wikileaks lost control of theirs). I know it's trivial to do this, but I'm really slammed right now. If you are willing to set something up, let me know. Maybe this thread can serve as a request list?
DNS is much more than a key->value datastore.

domob
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Re: Recover namecoin.bit + deal with cyber-squatters

Post by domob »

indolering wrote:
domob wrote: EDIT: I set up a cronjob to snatch up my id/domob as fast as possible as I had to let it expire recently due to the 519 bytes bug. It was quite trivial, and in case you have justified reasons to believe that d/namecoin is going to expire at some point, I can set up something like that again. But I doubt that will be the case.
I guess I was just being hopeful and I was thinking that additional people hammering at this would increase our chances in-case it ever did lapse.

However, Ademan brought up the possibility of creating a group to snatch up domains that are important but have been allowed to expire (I think Wikileaks lost control of theirs). I know it's trivial to do this, but I'm really slammed right now. If you are willing to set something up, let me know. Maybe this thread can serve as a request list?
Yes, I can do something like that. However, note first that the list shouldn't be public in my opinion, as this will only encourage other squatters to try their luck with the names mentioned here and hope someone will buy the domain from them if they succeed instead of us.

Also: We should decide about how to do it - one can already issue a name_new before the name expires, so that name_firstupdate can immediately follow up to expiry. However, in case the name does gets updated in time, the 0.01 NMC + transaction fee of the name_new would be lost.

I suggest that I first start by writing a tool that searches for expired and soon-to-expire names and lists them. I'll keep you all updated. :)
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indolering
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Re: Recover namecoin.bit + deal with cyber-squatters

Post by indolering »

domob wrote: Also: We should decide about how to do it - one can already issue a name_new before the name expires, so that name_firstupdate can immediately follow up to expiry. However, in case the name does gets updated in time, the 0.01 NMC + transaction fee of the name_new would be lost.

I suggest that I first start by writing a tool that searches for expired and soon-to-expire names and lists them. I'll keep you all updated. :)
It would definitely strengthen our legal and ethical status because (A) it shows that even developers don't get to mess with who owns what on the blockchain and (B) if we could actually make progress on cyber-squatting and trademark confusion we can avoid a lot of problems.

So yeah, if you can, get it up and running.
DNS is much more than a key->value datastore.

virtual_master
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Re: Recover namecoin.bit + deal with cyber-squatters

Post by virtual_master »

We could use eventually additionally to the dynamic fee system a length based domain expiration.
domain length 10-19 normal expiration
domain length 0 - 9 expiration in half time
domain length 20- .. double expiration time

Shorter domain names would have a higher recycling rate. :D
http://namecoinia.org/
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jonasbits
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Re: Recover namecoin.bit + deal with cyber-squatters

Post by jonasbits »

virtual_master wrote:We could use eventually additionally to the dynamic fee system a length based domain expiration.
domain length 10-19 normal expiration
domain length 0 - 9 expiration in half time
domain length 20- .. double expiration time

Shorter domain names would have a higher recycling rate. :D
I like this idea!
My Namecoin address: NC3HGHk527xuWZBgMdGJ2GxjpRSw8D4oA6

biolizard89
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Re: Recover namecoin.bit + deal with cyber-squatters

Post by biolizard89 »

virtual_master wrote:We could use eventually additionally to the dynamic fee system a length based domain expiration.
domain length 10-19 normal expiration
domain length 0 - 9 expiration in half time
domain length 20- .. double expiration time

Shorter domain names would have a higher recycling rate. :D
Intentionally designing a "secure" DNS system so that domains will expire without expected warning time seems pretty unethical to me. I think applying name fees to renew operations is a far better method of handling this.
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DyName: Dynamic DNS update client for .bit domains.

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virtual_master
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Re: Recover namecoin.bit + deal with cyber-squatters

Post by virtual_master »

biolizard89 wrote:
virtual_master wrote:We could use eventually additionally to the dynamic fee system a length based domain expiration.
domain length 10-19 normal expiration
domain length 0 - 9 expiration in half time
domain length 20- .. double expiration time

Shorter domain names would have a higher recycling rate. :D
Intentionally designing a "secure" DNS system so that domains will expire without expected warning time seems pretty unethical to me. I think applying name fees to renew operations is a far better method of handling this.
I am sorry that you misunderstood it.
The actual name expire system also doesn't send any warning and is impredictable(it is unethical after your definition) so there is no difference in this aspect.
But let us make a modification that will be more clear and you can feel more comfortable:
domain length 1 - 9 expiration in normal time(as now)
domain length 10-19 double expiration time
domain length 20- .. 4X expiration time

Sending a warning before expiration can also be implemented in the client so it would be even more secure in every aspect then now.
Having a longer expiration time for longer names could have sense especially by using on id/ -s, where people needs more stability.
Of course name renew should cost also - the actual 0 fee is a joke.
http://namecoinia.org/
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midnightmagic
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:50 am

Re: Recover namecoin.bit + deal with cyber-squatters

Post by midnightmagic »

biolizard89 wrote:
virtual_master wrote:We could use eventually additionally to the dynamic fee system a length based domain expiration.
domain length 10-19 normal expiration
domain length 0 - 9 expiration in half time
domain length 20- .. double expiration time

Shorter domain names would have a higher recycling rate. :D
Intentionally designing a "secure" DNS system so that domains will expire without expected warning time seems pretty unethical to me. I think applying name fees to renew operations is a far better method of handling this.
No; this is a bad idea. You would in one short stroke be destroying the value that many of the early adopters have built into the system from the start.

You folks are complaining about two mutually exclusive things:

1) When names are cheap, squatters register everything.
2) Squatter register everything.

MANY of the early names were registered when names were upwards of $32USD each. If you increase name_update costs beyond small simple fees you are going to screw a lot of people out of an enormous pile of cash they invested in the system in the very early days.

Besides, your arbitrary formulas aren't going to be nearly as concrete as you think, since namecoins are and likely will be for the foreseeable future, denominated in Bitcoin and will thus fluctuate in kind.

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