Namecoin : new hosting planned

indolering
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Re: Namecoin : new hosting planned

Post by indolering »

domob wrote:
namecoiner wrote:CloudFlare:
NoScript add-on users have difficulties browsing the site which is using CloudFlare hosting.
+1 I don't like CloudFlare for this reason among others (the main other reason being that we would hand them our TLS keys and be basically dependent on them, as far as I understand their system).
We have already agreed that we don't need to use CloudFlare so the point is rather moot but I would take a moment to defend CloudFlare.
  • No, we would not have to hand over our TLS keys to them even for TLS enabled sites.
  • Noscript users have problems with CloudFlare's CAPTCHA page. Perhaps we should fault them for not using a CAPTCHA which degrades gracefully but one can choose to turn that functionality off and it would in no-way impact noscript users.
  • Cloudflare was started by the people who run Project Honey Pot, an incredibly well-respected community run anti-spam project.
  • A list of Cloudflare's customers include Spamhaus, WikiLeaks, Anonops, 4Chan, and (previously) both LulzSec and UG Nazi. They kept UG Nazi even after they doxed the CEO and broke into his gmail account so they could redirect 4Chan's twitter feed to their website (source).
CloudFlare has helped stabilize online free speech rights and considering that we are using UK hosting ... well, you should update your paranoia priors : )

Anyway, lets get hosting donations work that out! I use WePay for most of my collective money stuff (i.e. splitting bills w/ roommates) and they have a nice transparency feature but some Googling also turned up Clover Donations.
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khal
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Re: Namecoin : new hosting planned

Post by khal »

kurt wrote:I will donate £20 per month
Good, thanks :)
indolering wrote:Khal, do you want to collaborate on a wiki post which outlines the server setup? We should at least get something written up describing whatever you have already built.
I'd propose that we improve the TODO wiki page.
indolering wrote:Speaking of which, you had mentioned that a non-EU resident would get a 20% discount because of the VAT tax. I have a solid American Express card (i.e. it will never be rejected) give me a billing account and we can put it on that.
I said a non-FR resident (but one that use the fr website I guess, so, this may be limited to belgium and switzerland ?) will not pay the additional 20% VAT. Difficult to say without testing (the soyoustart.com website is a new service provided by ovh).
My brother (owner of the current server FYI, that's how I know it works with ovh.com) leave in switzerland, but I'm not sure it would be a good idea to include him in all this :p
indolering wrote:No, I mean putting our primary servers in the UK.
This server will be in France, hosted by OVH, a french company.

quick edit: for donations, we have this too : https://dot-bit.org/Namecoin_DNS:Site_support :p
quick edit 2: for now I would recommend a simple server with no dependency on external service
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domob
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Re: Namecoin : new hosting planned

Post by domob »

indolering wrote:
domob wrote:
namecoiner wrote:CloudFlare:
NoScript add-on users have difficulties browsing the site which is using CloudFlare hosting.
+1 I don't like CloudFlare for this reason among others (the main other reason being that we would hand them our TLS keys and be basically dependent on them, as far as I understand their system).
We have already agreed that we don't need to use CloudFlare so the point is rather moot but I would take a moment to defend CloudFlare.
  • No, we would not have to hand over our TLS keys to them even for TLS enabled sites.
  • Noscript users have problems with CloudFlare's CAPTCHA page. Perhaps we should fault them for not using a CAPTCHA which degrades gracefully but one can choose to turn that functionality off and it would in no-way impact noscript users.
Are you sure about the TLS keys? How do their servers handle TLS traffic if they can't read it? I thought they actually do packet inspection and manipulation in order to provide their service, which would not be possible if they don't have the keys.

Regarding NoScript: What I find particularly annoying (not sure if that's also what namecoiner meant) is that I always have to "temporarily allow" lots of something.cloudflare.net domains which seem to change all the time. I don't want to add a global exception for *.cloudflare.net as also sites I do not want to run JS might be behind CloudFlare, but I also can't really figure out how to allow just the sites I want. Maybe I'm doing things wrong here, though, but this is just my experience.
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indolering
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Re: Namecoin : new hosting planned

Post by indolering »

domob wrote: Are you sure about the TLS keys? How do their servers handle TLS traffic if they can't read it? I thought they actually do packet inspection and manipulation in order to provide their service, which would not be possible if they don't have the keys.
I think they rip off the TLS and re-encrypt the content using their own certs If you are using a CDN someone has to sign the content, they can use their own keys or your keys but using your keys costs $200/month. I'm not sure what you mean by packet manipulation.
domob wrote: Regarding NoScript: What I find particularly annoying (not sure if that's also what namecoiner meant) is that I always have to "temporarily allow" lots of something.cloudflare.net domains which seem to change all the time. I don't want to add a global exception for *.cloudflare.net as also sites I do not want to run JS might be behind CloudFlare, but I also can't really figure out how to allow just the sites I want. Maybe I'm doing things wrong here, though, but this is just my experience.
I don't know what specific JS is causing the problem. It could be that they are just using different domains for the same CAPTCHA script but they also run cdnjs.

At any rate, we are NOT using their service so it's a moot point.
khal wrote: I said a non-FR resident (but one that use the fr website I guess, so, this may be limited to belgium and switzerland ?) will not pay the additional 20% VAT. Difficult to say without testing (the soyoustart.com website is a new service provided by ovh).
Ahh, well, I don't speak French, can I still access everything using their English website? I'm not sure I feel comfortable imposing english as a requirement but it is the common denominator here. I guess I can rely on my brother and Google translate if I need to....
khal wrote: quick edit: for donations, we have this too : https://dot-bit.org/Namecoin_DNS:Site_support :p
We need to accept fiat currencies as well as an ongoing donations system, something that pulls from an account monthly.
khal wrote: quick edit 2: for now I would recommend a simple server with no dependency on external service
Agreed.
DNS is much more than a key->value datastore.

indolering
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Re: Namecoin : new hosting planned

Post by indolering »

Khal, where are we on all of this?
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virtual_master
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Re: Namecoin : new hosting planned

Post by virtual_master »

I know how is working Cloudflare but never used it.
On freak-sites about gaming with lot of flash, graphic and video and many users could have sense especially if the user group is anyway not security-conscious and doesn't use content-controlling add-ons.
But for cryptocoin users I don't think it would be recommended. I also don't like if the content is coming from many sites because I am loosing time to check them or I need to start the browser in sandbox or in a virtualbox.
A dedicated server is of course better or if needed pictures can be embedded from imgur and videos from youtube.
Cloudflare should be used only if there is no better solution.
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indolering
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Re: Namecoin : new hosting planned

Post by indolering »

virtual_master wrote:I know how is working Cloudflare but never used it.
On freak-sites about gaming with lot of flash, graphic and video and many users could have sense especially if the user group is anyway not security-conscious and doesn't use content-controlling add-ons.
But for cryptocoin users I don't think it would be recommended. I also don't like if the content is coming from many sites because I am loosing time to check them or I need to start the browser in sandbox or in a virtualbox.
A dedicated server is of course better or if needed pictures can be embedded from imgur and videos from youtube.
Cloudflare should be used only if there is no better solution.
I'm totally fine with not using Cloudflare, I was just trying to quash some myths. They are really good for free speech online. :D
indolering wrote:
domob wrote: Regarding NoScript: What I find particularly annoying (not sure if that's also what namecoiner meant) is that I always have to "temporarily allow" lots of something.cloudflare.net domains ...
At any rate, we are NOT using their service so it's a moot point.
indolering wrote:
khal wrote: quick edit 2: for now I would recommend a simple server with no dependency on external service
Agreed.
DNS is much more than a key->value datastore.

indolering
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Re: Namecoin : new hosting planned

Post by indolering »

Khal, could you give an ETA on this?
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khal
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Re: Namecoin : new hosting planned

Post by khal »

After the registration tests I've done, I've seen it was not possible to select a country, which seemed to be a bug.
It's now possible again.

So, I would suggest that phelix creates the account to not pay the french VAT, if he agrees (he may need to pay himself the first time, but it is not sure).
As it is a lot of responsibility, I'm not sure at all he will accept to do that (and I don't remember his position on this).

As soon as I've his reply, we'll go on (me or him).

The cheapest server will take 10 days to be available.

DE registration link : https://eu.soyoustart.com/de/cgi-bin/ne ... rd=141sys1

PS : don't forget to select "English" as "Sprache".
PPS : I'll PM this post to him
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phelix
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Re: Namecoin : new hosting planned

Post by phelix »

khal wrote:After the registration tests I've done, I've seen it was not possible to select a country, which seemed to be a bug.
It's now possible again.

So, I would suggest that phelix creates the account to not pay the french VAT, if he agrees (he may need to pay himself the first time, but it is not sure).
As it is a lot of responsibility, I'm not sure at all he will accept to do that (and I don't remember his position on this).

As soon as I've his reply, we'll go on (me or him).

The cheapest server will take 10 days to be available.

DE registration link : https://eu.soyoustart.com/de/cgi-bin/ne ... rd=141sys1

PS : don't forget to select "English" as "Sprache".
PPS : I'll PM this post to him
It asks me to pay German VAT :roll:

So I suggest you proceed. I assume you can pay this from the dot-bit.org donations?

Looks like a quite beefy server, maybe we can run the public Namecoin/NMControl API on it, too.
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