Namecoin Dev List

indolering
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Namecoin Dev List

Post by indolering »

Last edited by indolering on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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domob
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Re: Namecoin Dev List

Post by domob »

Sorry, what about using Bitmessage instead? I don't want to use Google groups. For public dev discussions, just use the forum since we already have it.
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phelix
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Re: Namecoin Dev List

Post by phelix »

domob wrote:Sorry, what about using Bitmessage instead? I don't want to use Google groups. For public dev discussions, just use the forum since we already have it.
Bitmessage? Then we would have to manually put the NSA on CC for every single message... ;)
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domob
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Re: Namecoin Dev List

Post by domob »

phelix wrote:
domob wrote:Sorry, what about using Bitmessage instead? I don't want to use Google groups. For public dev discussions, just use the forum since we already have it.
Bitmessage? Then we would have to manually put the NSA on CC for every single message... ;)
Exactly. ;) I suggest to use a Bitmessage chan. This is a special address (actually, internally it isn't that special) based on a password. Everyone who knows the password can join the chan, post and read the messages, but others can not. This could be a good medium for developer exchange for cases where confidential information needs to be discussed (a discovered security bug, for instance). We could even associate the chan's address with a Namecoin id. :D (The address of a chan can be public; then everyone can in theory post to it, but still only members can read the messages.)

EDIT: The last sentence is actually not true, I just found out that even if a non-member knows the chan's address, they can't post to it. This is even better for the situation I have in mind.

For public discussions, as mentioned already I think the forum is fine and we don't need a separate mailing list. We could also create a public Namecoin chan, but not sure if this is useful at the moment. BTW, there exists already a chan for "nametrade", but I have no idea how much it is used. Could be another place to point people to who are interested in a squatted name, who knows.
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indolering
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Re: Namecoin Dev List

Post by indolering »

I'm all for having a private message channel, but I think an separate dev email channel would give us a better noise/signal ratio than forum posts. I think it was Khal that wanted one, it would probably make it easier for him to keep an eye on things if it was in his normal workflow. Maybe an interop between them?
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domob
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Re: Namecoin Dev List

Post by domob »

indolering wrote:I'm all for having a private message channel, but I think an separate dev email channel would give us a better noise/signal ratio than forum posts. I think it was Khal that wanted one, it would probably make it easier for him to keep an eye on things if it was in his normal workflow. Maybe an interop between them?
Yes, exactly, I agree with having a private message channel. I just want to propose to try out Bitmessage for that matter - it seems suited from my own experience. But I have to admit it would also be an "experiment" for me - never used Bitmessage much, especially not with decentralised mailing lists. But the concept sounds cool. I will create a chan and send instructions out per PM, so that everyone interested can test it out. :)
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biolizard89
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Re: Namecoin Dev List

Post by biolizard89 »

domob wrote:
indolering wrote:I'm all for having a private message channel, but I think an separate dev email channel would give us a better noise/signal ratio than forum posts. I think it was Khal that wanted one, it would probably make it easier for him to keep an eye on things if it was in his normal workflow. Maybe an interop between them?
Yes, exactly, I agree with having a private message channel. I just want to propose to try out Bitmessage for that matter - it seems suited from my own experience. But I have to admit it would also be an "experiment" for me - never used Bitmessage much, especially not with decentralised mailing lists. But the concept sounds cool. I will create a chan and send instructions out per PM, so that everyone interested can test it out. :)
I also like Bitmessage. Reasonably secure, reasonably anonymous, reasonably easy to use.
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khal
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Re: Namecoin Dev List

Post by khal »

indolering wrote:I'm all for having a private message channel, but I think an separate dev email channel would give us a better noise/signal ratio than forum posts. I think it was Khal that wanted one, it would probably make it easier for him to keep an eye on things if it was in his normal workflow. Maybe an interop between them?
Either a private channel, or just an alternative public channel with less visibility to non tech users (like bitcoin do it with it's mailing list).

That will allow us to discuss some sensible things (but not private things if the list is public, PM can still be used, or any other private communication channel) without every troll user reporting things & some technical things in a more quiet way.
If we need a private channel, we can also just use a sub-forum only visible to a selected list of users (I can just "subscribe" to the sub-forum to receive mails, to have more visibility on those).

domob wrote:Yes, exactly, I agree with having a private message channel. I just want to propose to try out Bitmessage for that matter - it seems suited from my own experience. But I have to admit it would also be an "experiment" for me - never used Bitmessage much, especially not with decentralised mailing lists. But the concept sounds cool. I will create a chan and send instructions out per PM, so that everyone interested can test it out. :)
It requires us to use another software, I would prefer using an existing one (mail/browser), but why not.
We should also create our own Bitmessage from namecoin :p (i've written some posts about that [and what can be done to add messaging to namecoin : a cost one and/or a free one] if you're interested).


ps : we also need a mailing list for important announcements (new versions, protocol changes, urgent bugs that requires user actions, etc).
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domob
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Re: Namecoin Dev List

Post by domob »

khal wrote:
indolering wrote:I'm all for having a private message channel, but I think an separate dev email channel would give us a better noise/signal ratio than forum posts. I think it was Khal that wanted one, it would probably make it easier for him to keep an eye on things if it was in his normal workflow. Maybe an interop between them?
Either a private channel, or just an alternative public channel with less visibility to non tech users (like bitcoin do it with it's mailing list).

That will allow us to discuss some sensible things (but not private things if the list is public, PM can still be used, or any other private communication channel) without every troll user reporting things & some technical things in a more quiet way.
If we need a private channel, we can also just use a sub-forum only visible to a selected list of users (I can just "subscribe" to the sub-forum to receive mails, to have more visibility on those).
I think that Bitmessage could be a good thing for both of them (both public and private lists), but I'm at the moment thinking about a private discussion (like PMs) medium for really sensitive things. You are of course right that one needs a new software (I run Bitmessage already - it even has Namecoin integration :P), but in terms of usability Bitmessage is really easy to set up when you don't mind installing it.

When I come home today I will create an experimental private chan and send information out for those interested in trying it.
khal wrote:
domob wrote:Yes, exactly, I agree with having a private message channel. I just want to propose to try out Bitmessage for that matter - it seems suited from my own experience. But I have to admit it would also be an "experiment" for me - never used Bitmessage much, especially not with decentralised mailing lists. But the concept sounds cool. I will create a chan and send instructions out per PM, so that everyone interested can test it out. :)
It requires us to use another software, I would prefer using an existing one (mail/browser), but why not.
We should also create our own Bitmessage from namecoin :p (i've written some posts about that [and what can be done to add messaging to namecoin : a cost one and/or a free one] if you're interested).
Yes, I know that, and those ideas are interesting. (Not sure about the free one, though, do you have a link for me?) However, I personally think that messaging is something best done without a blockchain at all, and only temporary storage, such that Bitmessage is a good solution. (If its possible scalability problems are resolved, but Namecoin would be even worse at them.)
khal wrote:ps : we also need a mailing list for important announcements (new versions, protocol changes, urgent bugs that requires user actions, etc).
One could create a public Bitmessage announcement mailing list (which only the list owner (think release manager in this case) could post to (or the private key could be shared with a group of selected people)), but I think this is best done with a sticky thread in the forum (like Bitcoin does it). But in general I like "ordinary" mailing lists, so if someone wants to set up mailman somewhere, I'm all for it for a public discussion and/or moderated announcement list.
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khal
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Re: Namecoin Dev List

Post by khal »

domob wrote:I think that Bitmessage could be a good thing for both of them (both public and private lists), but I'm at the moment thinking about a private discussion (like PMs) medium for really sensitive things. You are of course right that one needs a new software (I run Bitmessage already - it even has Namecoin integration :P), but in terms of usability Bitmessage is really easy to set up when you don't mind installing it.
I just tested the nmcontrol integration : very easy :p (Side note : I just fixed a bug in nmcontrol to use the right param in namecoin.conf to contact a remote namecoind)
domob wrote:When I come home today I will create an experimental private chan and send information out for those interested in trying it.
I'm in.
domob wrote:Yes, I know that, and those ideas are interesting. (Not sure about the free one, though, do you have a link for me?)
I'm not sure I've spoken something about the free one. To resume :
- name_new message : 20 bytes max , cost of a name_new, already doable on current network
- name_new hash(message) + a message relayed by nodes (using a new type of message in "ProcessMessage" (main.cpp)), cost can depend on messages length, expiration time and is put in name_new, requires sufficient nodes to upgrade to relay messages, messages are not stored in blockchain, except for the name_new tx
- a message relayed by nodes (using the same type as above [or new], in "ProcessMessage"), a proof-of-work (inspired by you know what :p), nothing in the blockchain
Everything else (encryption, channels, pub/sub) would be done externally, in nmcontrol for ex. Channels can be registered in namecoin names to allow to search (what is not possible in Bitmessage, but they can also use namecoin/nmcontrol to do that).
(Network Alerts may also be of some help in the process, a piece of the code is already done ?)
domob wrote:However, I personally think that messaging is something best done without a blockchain at all, and only temporary storage, such that Bitmessage is a good solution. (If its possible scalability problems are resolved, but Namecoin would be even worse at them.)
Using the blockchain for an instant & non-free messaging system is not adapted and counter-productive for namecoin (bigger blockchain). That's why the free messaging system is interesting (the non-free one can still have some interest I think).

domob wrote: One could create a public Bitmessage announcement mailing list (which only the list owner (think release manager in this case) could post to (or the private key could be shared with a group of selected people)), but I think this is best done with a sticky thread in the forum (like Bitcoin does it). But in general I like "ordinary" mailing lists, so if someone wants to set up mailman somewhere, I'm all for it for a public discussion and/or moderated announcement list.
There is a mailing on dot-bit since the beginning :
- subscribe : http://srv01.web-sweet-web.net/cgi-bin/ ... ot-bit.org
- email : namecoin-dev@dot-bit.org
A volunteer to administrate the mailman mailing list ?

For the announcement mailing list, don't know what is better (a forum + a "fake" user registrered with the email of the mailing list that subscribes to the forum ? both channels covered at once ?).
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