Yes, agreed. In the long term we really need more hash power which we will get with merged mining and wider adoption.doublec wrote:This doesn't help exchanges and merchants who suffer loss in physical goods or other currencies during an attack.vinced wrote: You have copies of all the blocks even if there is an attack, so you can always go back to the last block before the attack started.
51% Attack - Countermeasure Roundup
Re: 51% Attack - Countermeasure Roundup
!v | Namecoin founder | https://dot-bit.org/
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Re: 51% Attack - Countermeasure Roundup
Thanks for asking. I'd like us to acknowledge that after 19200, we are ultimately sunk if more hashing power (in the BTC network) wants to destroy Namecoin than wants to support it. Several people are *very* suspicious of merged mining and Namecoin and would, I am sure, support an attack intended to kill it and suppress any future merged-mining alt chains. Personally, I think this would set Satoshi's dream back five or ten years, maybe longer. Therefore, our best and only long-term defense is friendly public relations with BTC pools/miners.vinced wrote:If a real 51% attach starts we need a way to exclude or disadvantage the chain built by the attacking miners. Any idea how we would do that? We still want to be an open system while defending.
I respect your and khal's personal time but would feel safer with another committer or two capable of releasing officialish upgrades in a pinch.
There are some holes to be filled, especially the "time warp" that doublec has been mentioning. I'd suggest reading up on every weakness mentioned by ArtForz.
I'll bet we could come up with heuristics for namecoind to detect "unusual" network activity and notify the user. Examples would include long side chains and abrupt changes in network hash rate.
Other alt chains (SolidCoin, Geist Geld, ...) have dealt with or are dealing with real or theoretical attacks, and their solutions may interest us.
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Re: 51% Attack - Countermeasure Roundup
I do this on my exchanges now. I detect if an attempt is made to rewrite the block chain past the deposit confirmation limit for the exchange. When this happens the exchange stops processing blocks. Then I manually work through the two chains to see if the attempt was to double spend on of the deposits. This is the current state of the i0coin exchange, where the 20 confirmation limit was exceeded.johntobey253 wrote: I'll bet we could come up with heuristics for namecoind to detect "unusual" network activity and notify the user. Examples would include long side chains and abrupt changes in network hash rate.
Re: 51% Attack - Countermeasure Roundup
If a trusted person steps forward I can add them to the github repository as commiter.johntobey253 wrote: ...
I respect your and khal's personal time but would feel safer with another committer or two capable of releasing officialish upgrades in a pinch.
...
There are some holes to be filled, especially the "time warp" that doublec has been mentioning. I'd suggest reading up on every weakness mentioned by ArtForz.
The timetravel fix was released yesterday.
!v | Namecoin founder | https://dot-bit.org/
Re: 51% Attack - Countermeasure Roundup
I suggest nodemastervinced wrote: If a trusted person steps forward I can add them to the github repository as commiter.
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Re: 51% Attack - Countermeasure Roundup
nodemaster wrote:Umm.. yeah. Must be the reason why you was the only one mining on the wrong blockchain after all. Anyway thank you very much for your integrity handling the issue secretly as you was asked by everybody. I really appreciate your trustworthyness and keep that in mind.Davincij15 wrote:I did not go crazy. Shinning the light on a plan is the best way to determine it's merit. I talked to other people in the community and conclude that the plan was flawed.
Hey nodemaster,
First time I have seen this thread and it pisses me off.
Why are you beating up on Davinci? He was one of the main reasons I decided to stop this.
Nodemaster, you are an idiot to say the least. You do realize that the whole 51% attack was to distract you and The Time Travel EXploit is the real danger. NMC has peculiarities that make it EXCEPTIONALLY prime for this attack and less than 20% is needed.
"Forking the Chain" only gives more momentum to someone in a 51% attacking LOL...you really don't understand it at all do you and I know sure as hell you have no clue about The Time Travel EXploit. Forking the chain to defend against a 51% attack is like throwing gas on a burning fire to put it out!
Here's another newsflash for you, Merged Mining will make "Lock In Points" meaningless.
It's good thing I don't go back on my word or I would make you a "true believer" the same way I made Coinhunter after he made his public challenge. Notice, SC kinda a took a dive after he asked me to take my best shot.
Keep in mind, you guys haven't fixed anything, you're as wide open as you were a month ago.
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Re: 51% Attack - Countermeasure Roundup
You need some new material BitcoinEXpress, your trolling's getting ordinary.BitcoinEXpress wrote:It's good thing I don't go back on my word or I would make you a "true believer" the same way I made Coinhunter after he made his public challenge.
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Re: 51% Attack - Countermeasure Roundup
IMHO we should have at least three persons who are able to release new versions. Perhaps we should as well ask doublec and/or khal? If no one is against I'm willing to take this challenge, but I'd also want to make sure, that I'll only make use of the rights if there is imminent danger for the blockchain, we need an emergency release and vinced is not available for whatever reason. During normal development process vinced should be the only one who is pulling into his repo.cosurgi wrote:I suggest nodemastervinced wrote: If a trusted person steps forward I can add them to the github repository as commiter.
We should develop and agree on a process for emergency releases like:
1. Emergency fix is done on fork by whoever provide it
2. After testing it is pulled to vinceds repo
3. Version is advanced
4. Announcement is made on Forum. PGP signed by at least 2 out of n persons who can commit to the repo.
5. Binaries are created and made available on the main page.
I'm just working on automatic binary creation for linux and packaging for debian. Perhaps someone is able to do this for windows and Mac OS X? It's really a good idea to tighten the process of doing emergency releases. This is one of the weaknesses we identified during the 51% attack and I think we should address this. What do you think?
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Re: 51% Attack - Countermeasure Roundup
I splitted the discussion on an official tree here :
- Creating an official namecoin tree ?
- Creating an official namecoin tree ?
NamecoinID: id/khal
GPG : 9CC5B92E965D69A9
NMC: N1KHAL5C1CRzy58NdJwp1tbLze3XrkFxx9
BTC: 1KHAL8bUjnkMRMg9yd2dNrYnJgZGH8Nj6T
Register Namecoin domains with BTC
My bitcoin Identity - Send messages to bitcoin users
Charity Ad - Make a good deed without paying a cent
GPG : 9CC5B92E965D69A9
NMC: N1KHAL5C1CRzy58NdJwp1tbLze3XrkFxx9
BTC: 1KHAL8bUjnkMRMg9yd2dNrYnJgZGH8Nj6T
Register Namecoin domains with BTC
My bitcoin Identity - Send messages to bitcoin users
Charity Ad - Make a good deed without paying a cent
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Re: 51% Attack - Countermeasure Roundup
@doubleC
No problem DoubleC
You want it like that. No problem.
Your exchanges and pools are my primary target effective immediately. I will also reorganize the Namecoin attack and will begin as soon as I can get it assembled. We'll see who's trolling.
BCX
No problem DoubleC
You want it like that. No problem.
Your exchanges and pools are my primary target effective immediately. I will also reorganize the Namecoin attack and will begin as soon as I can get it assembled. We'll see who's trolling.
BCX